Multiple HOTSPOTS on the same network conflict

[K4PMD]

Hi All, I've had a MMDVM/Zero working OK for months....I added a DVMEGA/RPi3B Hotspot and could not get it to HEAR any Static TG, in this case 3100.

Here is my setup:
HOTSPOT 1 MMDVM my call id PLUS ESSID 03 on my network 192.168.0.160
HOTSPOT 2 DVMEGA my call id PLUS ESSID 04 on my network 192.168.0.162
DVBLUE/DV30 Windows10 my call ID plus ESSID 02 IP - 192.168.0.125

The DVBLUE works ALL the time, no issues, and I have setup a Static TG of 3100 on that device.

HOWEVER, IF I try to run the 2 HOTSPOTS at the same time, the DVMEGA with PISTAR 4.1.2 stops hearing/seeing the 3100 TG. The MMDVN/Zero Hotspot works OK, and apparently takes precedence over the DVMEGA - not sure why. I have to POWER DOWN the MMDVM/Zero for the DVMega to work OK.

Should I be able to run 2 (or more) hotspots at the same time with or without a static TG of (for instance) 3100 ?

I know this is OPERATOR error, just need some help pointing me in the right direction to fix this.

thanks,
Phil
K4PMD

[KD2EOY]

Hi All, I've had a MMDVM/Zero working OK for months....I added a DVMEGA/RPi3B Hotspot and could not get it to HEAR any Static TG, in this case 3100.

Here is my setup:
HOTSPOT 1 MMDVM my call id PLUS ESSID 03 on my network 192.168.0.160
HOTSPOT 2 DVMEGA my call id PLUS ESSID 04 on my network 192.168.0.162
DVBLUE/DV30 Windows10 my call ID plus ESSID 02 IP - 192.168.0.125

The DVBLUE works ALL the time, no issues, and I have setup a Static TG of 3100 on that device.

HOWEVER, IF I try to run the 2 HOTSPOTS at the same time, the DVMEGA with PISTAR 4.1.2 stops hearing/seeing the 3100 TG. The MMDVN/Zero Hotspot works OK, and apparently takes precedence over the DVMEGA - not sure why. I have to POWER DOWN the MMDVM/Zero for the DVMega to work OK.

Should I be able to run 2 (or more) hotspots at the same time with or without a static TG of (for instance) 3100 ?

I know this is OPERATOR error, just need some help pointing me in the right direction to fix this.

thanks,
Phil
K4PMD

Your network IP addresses shouldn't, the problem could be with the frequency of your hotspot's are set on. if their on the same frequency it's never going to work, they will be battling or even going into a loop if on the same talk group too.

[g6fgy]

I had a similar problem that I raised on this board some time back - 2 hotspots on the same network with apparently 2 different IP addresses allocated.

It turned out to be an IP clash afterall! I had both hotspots set up with seperate static IP address correctly on the router, but what I had overlooked was the fact that sometime previously I had changed the hostname on one of them and the previous name, mac address and static IP allocation was still in the table of static allocations. So although at first glance the IP addresses were seperate, the router knew otherwise and threw its toys out of the pram by knocking one of the hotspots virtually off the network! Deleted the old hostname and all was well with the world again.

So, if you have static IP addresses set up on your router, it might be worth checking the static IP table to see if there's anything duplicated that could be attributed to your hotspots.

Eric - G6FGY (UK)

[K4PMD]

Hi Eric,
Thanks for your reply....I use a (for a home LAN) a Ubiquiti router....the IP addresses noted were DHCP assigned, but the router keeps them as Static, but without putting them into a static table. It looks at the MAC address and re-assigns the IP as needed, in this case each Hotspot uses a different IP, in fact when I use WiFi (the DVMEGA is on the LAN) it assigns it a different IP (in this case 192.168.0.163).

I'll keep poking around and see if the issue is Brandmeister related. I have a BLUEDV set up on a Windows-10 (also on the LAN .125) and it functions perfectly even with the hotspot3 running and now with the DVMEGA - as I've disconnected the Hotspot 3.

Do you know of anyway to DELETE the individual hotspots that appear on my HOTSPOT listing on my Self Care page?

Thanks - 73's
Phil
K4PMD

[g6fgy]

Hi Eric,
Thanks for your reply....I use a (for a home LAN) a Ubiquiti router....the IP addresses noted were DHCP assigned, but the router keeps them as Static, but without putting them into a static table. It looks at the MAC address and re-assigns the IP as needed, in this case each Hotspot uses a different IP, in fact when I use WiFi (the DVMEGA is on the LAN) it assigns it a different IP (in this case 192.168.0.163).

I'll keep poking around and see if the issue is Brandmeister related. I have a BLUEDV set up on a Windows-10 (also on the LAN .125) and it functions perfectly even with the hotspot3 running and now with the DVMEGA - as I've disconnected the Hotspot 3.

Do you know of anyway to DELETE the individual hotspots that appear on my HOTSPOT listing on my Self Care page?

Thanks - 73's
Phil
K4PMD

Hi Phil,

The whole multiple hotspots thing can be a nightmare - usually everything works as expected, but when it doesn't, boy it can be a right PIA to try and sort out

Sorry but I can't assist you with that last query as I don't use the Brandmeister network, only Phoenix UK, which is an offshoot of the original Marc network.

Hope you manage to get it sorted in due course.

Eric - G6FGY (UK)

[K4PMD]

Hi Eric
I'm sure I'll get it SORTED OUT....it will take some time and help from EXPERTS to point out a stupid setting on my part.

Have a nice weekend....

[AF6VN]

You aren't just using multiple hotspots on a single LAN, but also same server I presume, and talk group.

What happens if you change the Brandmeister server so that each hotspot references a different server (yes, you may get increased latency from picking a server across the country, but humor me for the test). Normally NAT routers work by keeping a table mapping the internal IP/port<>router LAN port <=> router WAN port<>remote IP/port; this allows it to determine where returned packets are to be sent. But as I recall hotspots require having ports opened on the router -- meaning external IPs will be sending traffic to the router to be forwarded to devices on the inside; the router may not be able to determine which internal device is supposed to receive the packet.

My understanding is that most times when multiple hotspots are used on a single LAN, it is to allow each to be dedicated to a different /mode/ (D-Star <> DMR <> YSF...) rather than relying of low traffic time-outs to allow multiple modes on one hotspot.

[K4PMD]

Hi All,
Thanks greatly for the ADVISE and info.....it was not my intention to VIOLATE any BM rule/regs.

I do have multiple hotspots, and assigned one to my vehicle permanently. It would of course connect with a different IP address as it would be a PERSONAL HOTSPOT on my iOS phone. The mobile hotspot had no problem operating, and I really like working 3100 from the cell network rather than on the fringe of one of the local repeaters....I like to listen (you learn more listening than talking LOL) and you can't do that on a local repeater, the local folks get annoyed if you tie the repeater up.

I'll drop an email and ask BM to delete the Hotspot # which I no longer want to use.

thanks again....if there are any other thoughts, I'd be interested to hear them.

[K4PMD]

HI,
So let me explain, a bit more, as I LEARN more about BM. I acquired a DVMEGA/RIi3B, I set it up with Pistar, all went well...however. I do have a MMDVM w/ RPiZero that I keep on all the time, and use with my only HT. I changed the freq on the DVMEGA, and the HT to match, NOT the same frequency as the MMDVM. I could KEY up, see my RF on the dashboard, see the resulting indication on the activity, but NO other traffic on the TG (in this case 3100). I started chasing my 'TAIL' checking all the setting on the DVMEGA...it all looked right. I had assigned a different ESSID number to each Hotspot. But in a last ditch effort I turned OFF the MMDVM (which was Static 3100) and the DVMEGA started working normally. (sorry for long explanation). Is it necessary to use a HOTSPOT SECURITY PASSWORD...I have heard it is good to have, but not mandatory...IS THAT CORRECT? (My PISTAR IS password protected)

I also have another MMDVM setup for mobile, with my iPhone, which also worked perfectly, even with the MMDVM I use as my 'reference' hotspot. AND I have BLUEDV/DV30 running on my Windows-10. BTW, I am an engineer with knowledge of IP/physical layer/transport layer etc, and my home LAN is a LAYER-2 design with managed switches, managed firewall router etc.

The whole purpose is more a matter of CONFIDENCE INDICATOR and I get to see my BER/LOSS/TIME DURATION and confirm all is working on the DVBLUE, it has limited display info. In addition, it is my intent to buy another HT, and assign it to another hotspot, with different operating frequencies. You can never have enough HT's (LOL).

So back to the original question, can you operate multiple hotspots at the same time, on the same LAN, using different ESSID? If there is a mechanism on the BM servers to prevent this...the answer would be NO. If there isn't a BLOCK, then technically I can do this, not that I would, but like I said, I chased my TAIL for weeks trying to figure out the problem with the DVMEGA. KNOWLEDGE IS KING.

Thanks for your patience in working through this discussion.

[AF6VN]

The whole purpose is more a matter of CONFIDENCE INDICATOR and I get to see my BER/LOSS/TIME DURATION and confirm all is working on the DVBLUE, it has limited display info. In addition, it is my intent to buy another HT, and assign it to another hotspot, with different operating frequencies. You can never have enough HT's (LOL).

I'd have to ask /why/ dedicate a hotspot to each HT? Unless you intend to have both HTs on at the same time, listening to different talk groups...

So back to the original question, can you operate multiple hotspots at the same time, on the same LAN, using different ESSID? If there is a mechanism on the BM servers to prevent this...the answer would be NO. If there isn't a BLOCK, then technically I can do this, not that I would, but like I said, I chased my TAIL for weeks trying to figure out the problem with the DVMEGA. KNOWLEDGE IS KING.

Remember, Brandmeister does not see your LAN -- it sees the WAN address of your router. So from their point of view, the multiple hotspots are at the SAME IP address coming from different ports on the router. In contrast, the hotspot going through your cellphone is seen as a different WAN IP address. (From some googling, my earlier concern about inbound port confusion is more a D-STAR matter; in theory one could route to a callsign, and the D-STAR system would try to connect to the last known repeater/hotspot for that callsign -- that's an inbound port, not a pair of users on outbound connections to a common server).