Cannot connect to Brandmeister network

Help with DMR issues
AF6VN
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Cannot connect to Brandmeister network

Post by AF6VN » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:39 pm

M1DNS wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:00 am
The DCS dstar networks required you to register for a ccs7 ID to be identified over their networks. It was also used as a way of routing a call to a particular users via his ID and tracking them as they worked through differing repeaters. The ID like a dmr id was registered against ur ham callsign and followed the same 7digit format used by the dmr registration process. DCS (whilst still in use) formed the basis of the XLX networks we see all over use in europe and the rest of the world. Their use in Europe far outweigh the dplus network used by U.S. hams and the id nos are still used. XLX have now grown to accept links via DSTAR DMR & YSF, but as said most of you in the U.S. are obvious to them. so your reply doesnt come as a surprise.
Then let me just state that my D-STAR /radio/ has no provision for a CCS7 ID. Any usage of such an ID is being done external to the D-STAR protocol itself.

--
AF6VN
Dennis L Bieber

KE7FNS
Posts: 943
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:11 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Brandmeister network

Post by KE7FNS » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:23 pm

G4TVP wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:26 am
If there is anything I can do to assist with dev/testing, then please let me know. 😁
I guess if you wanted you could file an issue report on github, but since pi-star uses a different/older/custom version of MMDVMHost I don't know how relevant it would be.

I can't do anything because I can't recreate your issue, I also couldn't build the exact same MMDVMHost that Andy does because he doesn't publish his build information.

Honestly, it appears someone needs your identical setup and configuration in order to produce the issues, as I've said on one of my systems months ago I saw tons of those buffer overflow messages but they didn't break the system like what yours seems to be doing, they only bloated the logs. Now they have gone away completely.

Maybe you could try to go back to 3.4.17, since MMDVMHost doesn't appear to have been updated in quite a while on that pi-star branch, it might not contain the bug you are encountering. Or maybe you could buy a new setup like you said earlier, but in that case I'd recommend not buying the identical RPi model and hat, maybe a RPi 3, and some newer design hat other than a jumbospot clone.

I've had good luck with a Zumspot v.6 I think it is I can't see it cause its inside a case. I also use a duplex variant of MMDVM_HS_Hat by DB9MAT DF2ET DO7EN.
If someones previous actions are any indication of their future actions, then I predict the deletion and removal of access will happen at any moment. 7-11-2020.

"07/13/20 This Website Has Been Taken Down" ... again :lol:

G4TVP
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:30 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Brandmeister network

Post by G4TVP » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:31 am

Thankyou so much for your assistance in this matter.

I did try YSF, just out of interest last night, but no joy with that either. Perhaps someone can point me at the GitHub for the MMDVM and I can try building/expirementing with that. Maybe with a "defective" setup to hand, I can pinpoint the issue. It's all learning!

As me mentioned in a previous post, Flo has given me the nod on a v2 of their HAT, so I will go with that option for now.

G4TVP
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:30 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Brandmeister network

Post by G4TVP » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:26 pm

If it's any use :

If I use the "pistar-findmodem" command, that initially gives me back this response. "Detected MMDVM_HS (GPIO): /dev/ttyAMA0 (MMDVM_HS_Hat-v1.4.17 20190529 14.7456MHz ADF7021 FW by CA6JAU GitID #cc451c4)"

However, after a couple of minutes, the MMDVM locks up and I get no response from that command at all. I can press the reset button on the HAT or reboot to restore it back to life.

Does the MMDVM hat write any kind of debug, that I can capture?

G8SEZ
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:26 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Brandmeister network

Post by G8SEZ » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:41 pm

G4TVP wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:26 pm
If it's any use :

If I use the "pistar-findmodem" command, that initially gives me back this response. "Detected MMDVM_HS (GPIO): /dev/ttyAMA0 (MMDVM_HS_Hat-v1.4.17 20190529 14.7456MHz ADF7021 FW by CA6JAU GitID #cc451c4)"

However, after a couple of minutes, the MMDVM locks up and I get no response from that command at all. I can press the reset button on the HAT or reboot to restore it back to life.

Does the MMDVM hat write any kind of debug, that I can capture?
That does make me suspicious that there is a dry joint or a cracked component on the HAT board somewhere, the most obvious place I can think of is around the 8MHz crystal that the STM32F103 CPU uses or something else in that area. If you have the means, a bit of careful reflowing of joints might help you here. A careful visual inspection is probably worth a few minutes of your time too.
--

Brian G8SEZ

KE7FNS
Posts: 943
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:11 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Brandmeister network

Post by KE7FNS » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:19 pm

G4TVP wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:31 am
I did try YSF, just out of interest last night, but no joy with that either. Perhaps someone can point me at the GitHub for the MMDVM and I can try building/expirementing with that. Maybe with a "defective" setup to hand, I can pinpoint the issue. It's all learning!
You've already pinpointed the issue as much as you can, its a buffer overflow that ends up causing a communications failure between the RPi and the hat at some point.

In the past there have been posts where people have asked for instructions on how to do what you are wanting and they either get locked or deleted by the mods, so obviously the mods don't want users fiddling around with building MMDVMHost on their own. You couldn't build the exact same version Andy does without his build documentation either. You'll just have to wait on Andy to build a new version like everyone else.
G4TVP wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:26 pm
Does the MMDVM hat write any kind of debug, that I can capture?
No. The hat has its own processor that constantly loops its own code on its own. If you added code to output to a serial port it would severely impact the timing and probably break the functionality of the hat.
G8SEZ wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:41 pm
That does make me suspicious that there is a dry joint or a cracked component on the HAT board somewhere, the most obvious place I can think of is around the 8MHz crystal that the STM32F103 CPU uses or something else in that area. If you have the means, a bit of careful reflowing of joints might help you here. A careful visual inspection is probably worth a few minutes of your time too.
I'm not convinced it is a bad solder joint, oscillator or hardware related. That doesn't explain why it works correctly when he turns the DMR mode off and only runs DStar. It must be in the MMDVMHost code since it is being detected and logged.
If someones previous actions are any indication of their future actions, then I predict the deletion and removal of access will happen at any moment. 7-11-2020.

"07/13/20 This Website Has Been Taken Down" ... again :lol:

G8SEZ
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:26 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Brandmeister network

Post by G8SEZ » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:40 pm

KE7FNS wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:19 pm
G8SEZ wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:41 pm
That does make me suspicious that there is a dry joint or a cracked component on the HAT board somewhere, the most obvious place I can think of is around the 8MHz crystal that the STM32F103 CPU uses or something else in that area. If you have the means, a bit of careful reflowing of joints might help you here. A careful visual inspection is probably worth a few minutes of your time too.
I'm not convinced it is a bad solder joint, oscillator or hardware related. That doesn't explain why it works correctly when he turns the DMR mode off and only runs DStar. It must be in the MMDVMHost code since it is being detected and logged.
I have seen a fault like this before when a slightly higher CPU load than normal caused a crash due to the temperature increase flexing the PCB mechanically.

Something to consider.
--

Brian G8SEZ

KE7FNS
Posts: 943
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:11 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Brandmeister network

Post by KE7FNS » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:17 pm

G8SEZ wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:40 pm
I have seen a fault like this before when a slightly higher CPU load than normal caused a crash due to the temperature increase flexing the PCB mechanically.
What crashed? The STM32, MMDVMHost, or the communications?

Whats that oscillator used for? I can't find any reference to it in the source code. I only find the TCXO.

If temperature is the issue he could provide some external heat from a hair dryer or heat gun and see if he observes a communications failure.

If he had an identical hat to swap out that would also help to confirm a hardware issue with his board.

How much of a difference is the CPU utilization on a RPi zero W when you run both DStar and DMR simultaneously? and is it really enough to cause a temperature increase like that?
If someones previous actions are any indication of their future actions, then I predict the deletion and removal of access will happen at any moment. 7-11-2020.

"07/13/20 This Website Has Been Taken Down" ... again :lol:

G8SEZ
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:26 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Brandmeister network

Post by G8SEZ » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:44 am

KE7FNS wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:17 pm
G8SEZ wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:40 pm
I have seen a fault like this before when a slightly higher CPU load than normal caused a crash due to the temperature increase flexing the PCB mechanically.
What crashed? The STM32, MMDVMHost, or the communications?

Whats that oscillator used for? I can't find any reference to it in the source code. I only find the TCXO.

If temperature is the issue he could provide some external heat from a hair dryer or heat gun and see if he observes a communications failure.

If he had an identical hat to swap out that would also help to confirm a hardware issue with his board.

How much of a difference is the CPU utilization on a RPi zero W when you run both DStar and DMR simultaneously? and is it really enough to cause a temperature increase like that?
I was referring to something different, a completely different system. Increasing the CPU load by a few percent triggered a problem that was subsequently discovered to be due to a cracked component. The only common point was that this also used an ST CPU. Yes we used a hot air gun to prove it. The 'cracked' component was not obviously damaged even under a microscope, it was probably a manufacturing defect.

The 8MHz crystal is the clock oscillator for the STM32F103 CPU, if there is a problem with that the CPU stops executing code because it has no clock. That definitely can cause a communications failure!

I have a Pi Zero that has both DMR and YSF enabled, it runs a couple of degrees hotter than the DMR-only ones. Doesn't seem much, but such things can occasionally cause a problem.

Mike has ordered another HAT and no doubt will report whether it helps.

If you look at the HS_HAT that the Jumbospot boards were based on you can see that some 3v3 supply filtering was added to them somewhere between v1.2 and the later v1.6 layout. I modified my 3 boards to add this, I don't know how much difference it made but I do know that with my first board the PiStar it was in was quite flaky when I first used it. I made the supply modification as it seemed sensible, but there were a lot of firmware and mmdvmhost changes around this time so I can't be sure what cleaned it up and I didn't keep notes. I do notice that the dual HS_HAT uses a 3v3 regulator supplied from the 5v rail, the 3v3 rail coming up from the Pi board has all of the noise on it generated by the Pi circuitry so this is another sensible change to improve the noise immunity of the whole system. I see that the HS_HAT is being updated to a v2.0 release, it will be interesting to see what has been done to improve it further.

I will be interested to see what Mike finds when he eventually solves this problem.
--

Brian G8SEZ

KE7FNS
Posts: 943
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:11 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Brandmeister network

Post by KE7FNS » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:46 pm

G8SEZ wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:44 am
The 8MHz crystal is the clock oscillator for the STM32F103 CPU, if there is a problem with that the CPU stops executing code because it has no clock. That definitely can cause a communications failure!
I'm not sure that is actually the case of what would happen if that oscillator fails. I read through the datasheet late last night to get a better understanding. There is a built in internal oscillator (HSI) and according to the documents I read if the external oscillator input (HSE) fails the internal mechanism (HSI) takes over. It seems that the internal clock isn't as accurate and that is the only reason HSE was used instead of HSI. It seems to be a carry over from MMDVM circuit designs from around 2014 from what I can tell.

Figure 2. Clock tree on page 12 shows how HSI and HSE feed into the same input.
https://www.st.com/resource/en/datashee ... f103c8.pdf

2.3 Clock security system (CSS) page 14 is where I read about the HSE failure to HSI rollover.
https://www.st.com/resource/en/applicat ... ronics.pdf
If someones previous actions are any indication of their future actions, then I predict the deletion and removal of access will happen at any moment. 7-11-2020.

"07/13/20 This Website Has Been Taken Down" ... again :lol:

Post Reply