Completely new to this. Can't get gateway and MD-380 to work

Help with DMR issues
K0DXV
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:25 pm

Re: Completely new to this. Can't get gateway and MD-380 to work

Post by K0DXV »

I haven't disappeared and I am not short on appreciation for the help. and... while PARROT now works it doesn't seem that anything else does. I have carefully entered data into a new codeplug so I am not inheriting someone else's poorly defined data. I have 14 entries carefully matching Digital Contacts to Channels Information - Contact Name. And yet... PARROT works but nothing else does.

Admit Criteria = Color Code? Color Code number? Does it matter? I'm not sure why nothing else is working. I am both humble and grateful for any help offered. Thanks --- Doug --- K0DXV
AF6VN
Posts: 821
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Completely new to this. Can't get gateway and MD-380 to work

Post by AF6VN »

K0DXV wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:07 am I haven't disappeared and I am not short on appreciation for the help. and... while PARROT now works it doesn't seem that anything else does. I have carefully entered data into a new codeplug so I am not inheriting someone else's poorly defined data. I have 14 entries carefully matching Digital Contacts to Channels Information - Contact Name. And yet... PARROT works but nothing else does.

Admit Criteria = Color Code? Color Code number? Does it matter? I'm not sure why nothing else is working. I am both humble and grateful for any help offered. Thanks --- Doug --- K0DXV
You had one channel working... Does the editor allow you to clone (copy) that channel. If so, make /n/ copies of the working channel. THEN step through these copies making only two changes: the CHANNEL NAME, and the CONTACT NAME.

Then put all these /channels/ into one radio ZONE (I believe one can have 16 channels per zone). Set the radio to that zone, and dial up the channel for the talk group of interest. Without a "group list" you will only hear traffic for the dialed up channel/talk group (but given the way Brandmeister puts in lock-outs, if you PTT one group, BM blocks any other talk group that may have been activated, for some period of time). For receive group list, put the Contacts for the channels in the Zone, and set all the relevant channels to the same group list (While a group list may allow more than just 16 entries -- you'd have to switch ZONE before you could dial up the channel for the excess).

Contacts should not have repeater calls in their name, unless the talk group is specific to that repeater. For Channel names, I use <rptr> <group name> (with HS for Hotspot, group names look like BM N Am, BM WW, BM NationWide [3100]). {Actually, I use <city> <group name>, since pretty much all the DMR repeaters in Michigan are part of the MI5 network, which doesn't allow activating BM talk groups even temporarily [though the Mi5 specific groups do show up on BM]}

When you move beyond the hotspot to actual repeaters, clone the hotspot channels, edit channel name replacing HS with repeater ID, change Rx and Tx frequencies, change color code and time slot (you'll have to check with repeater operator for what groups are on which time slot. Note: they may not allow access to all the groups you have in the hotspot list, so you can delete those cloned channels.

Hotspot usage should have power level LOW to avoid overloading the hotspot (you're unlikely to be more than a 100 feet from it, and it transmits even lower power than the radio LOW setting). Real repeaters, power HIGH may be desirable.

For the hotspot usage, the color code set in the Pi-Star config page is what the radio must be configured for. I usually set Admit Criteria for "Color Code Free" -- after all, that's what you'll be using when you configure real repeaters, and it doesn't seem to affect hotspot usage (especially as the simplex hotspot won't hear the radio if there is traffic on the channel from the network -- so the other options allowing the radio to transmit over receive won't do anything anyways).

--
AF6VN
Dennis L Bieber
K0DXV
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:25 pm

Re: Completely new to this. Can't get gateway and MD-380 to work

Post by K0DXV »

I announced my call sign. It wasn't just empty keying. I was looking to see if anyone responded.
AF6VN
Posts: 821
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Completely new to this. Can't get gateway and MD-380 to work

Post by AF6VN »

K0DXV wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:16 pm I announced my call sign. It wasn't just empty keying. I was looking to see if anyone responded.
Configure US Nationwide -- 3100 -- and try there; it's usually busy...

--
AF6VN
Dennis L Bieber
K0DXV
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:25 pm

Re: Completely new to this. Can't get gateway and MD-380 to work

Post by K0DXV »

So I guess the protocol on DMR is different than on analog repeaters? What do you usually do to start a conversation?
K0DXV
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:25 pm

Re: Completely new to this. Can't get gateway and MD-380 to work

Post by K0DXV »

It doesn't sound much like ham radio. I'm not sure what it is - but its something different and I don't think I care for it very much. Honestly - I *have to ask if anyone will talk to me*? Seriously? Ham Radio is about making QSOs. What are all this DMR channels for? Do I have to be part of the IN-CROWD in order for someone to respond? I think I should have invested my $200 in something more interesting then what appears to be nothing more than an internet-based voice texting. Out of all these BrandMeister nodes I have yet to hear two people engaged in a conversation. Once, I heard on guy calling another guy. He didn't get an answer so I called him. No response. I think I'll go back to where Ham Radio is the *POINT* and where people call CQ and other people answer other people calling CQ. This doesn't sound much like that.
AF6VN
Posts: 821
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Completely new to this. Can't get gateway and MD-380 to work

Post by AF6VN »

K0DXV wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:27 pm It doesn't sound much like ham radio. I'm not sure what it is - but its something different and I don't think I care for it very much. Honestly - I *have to ask if anyone will talk to me*? Seriously? Ham Radio is about making QSOs. What are all this DMR channels for?
You'd probably be disappointed with D-STAR and YSF too, I suspect.

As for "all this DMR channels" -- remember that DMR started life as a BUSINESS/PUBLIC SERVICE mode, where a radio shop or specialist is used to program the radios. Especially if they are leased -- say a construction company leases x-units from some provider; said provider may also be running a repeater. The provider would configure the radios with a few (depending on how the construction company wants them set up -- I'm making presumptions here) global talk groups specific to the company, along with maybe configuring a channel for each worker issued a radio; the latter allows for private calls between workers. A global might be "all workers", maybe another just for heavy equipment operators, another for workers doing manual stuff, etc. The shop may have other customers and configures talk groups for them separate from the first set. Both customers may be going through the one repeater, or go "talk around" (simplex) if the job site doesn't require the areal coverage of a repeater.
Do I have to be part of the IN-CROWD in order for someone to respond? I think I should have invested my $200 in something more interesting then what appears to be nothing more than an internet-based voice texting. Out of all these BrandMeister nodes I have yet to hear two people engaged in a conversation. Once, I heard on guy calling another guy. He didn't get an answer so I called him. No response. I think I'll go back to where Ham Radio is the *POINT* and where people call CQ and other people answer other people calling CQ. This doesn't sound much like that.
I have seldom heard anyone calling "CQ" on VHF/UHF repeater systems. At best, someone will announce their call sign and state "monitoring".

Most DMR and D-STAR repeaters default to local-mode, unless someone explicitly links to a network talk group (or D-STAR reflector). {Okay, the Mi5 repeaters are all linked to each other, but only support two statewide talk groups, and four special event talk groups [two of which are split into West and East repeaters, the other two are statewide]; the Mi5 organization sends out emails when special events are happening, asking users to stay of either TS1 or TS2 -- basically three talk groups per time slot}.

On the local FM repeater, I often hear announcements of Echolink connects and disconnects, but seldom hear anyone speak; it's like they connect, just to see if there is anything going on.

Consider https://www.bridgecomsystems.com/pages/ ... gital-nets There may be a net that you could call-in on...

--
AF6VN
Dennis L Bieber
K0DXV
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:25 pm

Re: Completely new to this. Can't get gateway and MD-380 to work

Post by K0DXV »

I've been communicating on FM repeaters since 1970. So, with 22 talk groups programmed in, I haven't heard single word on any of them. Every channel is just dead space. I guess I'm too used to 20 meters which these days is basically busy 24 hours. I don't know where activity is on these talk groups. Everything remotely related to Colorado is quiet.
AF6VN
Posts: 821
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Completely new to this. Can't get gateway and MD-380 to work

Post by AF6VN »

K0DXV wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:43 am I've been communicating on FM repeaters since 1970. So, with 22 talk groups programmed in, I haven't heard single word on any of them. Every channel is just dead space. I guess I'm too used to 20 meters which these days is basically busy 24 hours. I don't know where activity is on these talk groups. Everything remotely related to Colorado is quiet.
US Nationwide -- BM 3100

True, a lot of <2 second key-ups from people activating the TG, but there have been two key ups in the last hour of over 10 seconds each (I know, that doesn't sound like much -- but my hot spot is also routing D-STAR Ref30C, and it has priority [given the hold times I have specified], it shows about 6 key ups around 10 seconds or more).

Another listing of scheduled nets http://w0wc.com/resources/brandmeister-dmr-nets/ Of course, some of that may be dated...

--
AF6VN
Dennis L Bieber
AF6VN
Posts: 821
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Completely new to this. Can't get gateway and MD-380 to work

Post by AF6VN »

KE7FNS wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:56 am
K0DXV wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:43 am So, with 22 talk groups programmed in, I haven't heard single word on any of them.
Are you assuming that since you have 22 talkgroups programmed in the radio that the system is always monitoring those 22 talkgroups 24/7?
Ah, I'd not interpreted it that way...

But yeah... Brandmeister/HotSpot isn't going to see them all, even if in a Group List. BM puts a lock-out so that only the last keyed talk-group will be heard for something like 5-10 minutes. Even static talk groups don't get through that. THEN it opens up which would allow static groups to pass. For dynamic groups (activated via PTT), if one activates two dynamics back-to-back, the last one will have the 5-10 minute lock-out of others, and when the lock-out expires, one may be lucky to catch something from the other dynamic group as BM expires dynamic groups after something like 15 minutes (except the last keyed group, which becomes a pseudo-static group -- it stays activated until some other group is used). And putting 22 talkgroups into "static mode" may be a hassle (I only have two: Mi5 Statewide 1 and statewide 2 -- and was surprised that Statewide 1 activated yesterday; I didn't hear it as the battery in the Tyt [in the other room] had died).

If using a local repeater with folks activating various talk groups throughout the day (if BM talk groups, they again will expire after 15 minutes of dis-use), then the group list may be viable -- you'd catch anyone activating one of the groups in your group list. On a hotspot, a few static groups, and the last keyed dynamic (after the lock-out expires) are all you'd be able to monitor.

--
AF6VN
Dennis L Bieber
Post Reply