Shows TX on both TS at the same time

Help with DMR issues
KN4QZM
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:03 am

Shows TX on both TS at the same time

Post by KN4QZM »

A friend with a new duplex hotspot would occasionally not be heard during a QSO. I had him check the dashboard and when this happened, it would show him TX on both TS at the same time. I've never seen this before so I made sure his radio was on low power, radio programmed properly, and the hotspot FWs all up to date. Then, not long after, I noticed this happening on my hotspot while I was TX and watching the dashboard. I tried Google and searches on this forum and don't see anything about this. I had my friend change one of the antennas on case it was desense but it still happens on occasion. Anyone heard of this or have any idea why it's happening?
Thanks,
Eli
K2ELI
KN2TOD
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:36 pm

Re: Shows TX on both TS at the same time

Post by KN2TOD »

You're getting what you ask for: if you select a talk group for both time slots in the BM Manager API, then traffic will show up on both.
The time slot selected shows up in parens following the TG number, e.g. 9990(1), 3113(2), 98003(1), 98003(2), in the Connections panel.
KN4QZM
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:03 am

Re: Shows TX on both TS at the same time

Post by KN4QZM »

KN2TOD wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:26 pm You're getting what you ask for: if you select a talk group for both time slots in the BM Manager API, then traffic will show up on both.
The time slot selected shows up in parens following the TG number, e.g. 9990(1), 3113(2), 98003(1), 98003(2), in the Connections panel.
Both radios are only programmed to use TS2 and this has never happened before. It's also sporadic and not all the time.
KN4QZM
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:03 am

Re: Shows TX on both TS at the same time

Post by KN4QZM »

As an experiment, I went into MMDVM Host and under DMR Network I changed Slot1 to 0. Now with TS1 off, which I never use anyway, I don't see how both TS could get keyed-up at the same time. Will keep an eye and report back.
KN2TOD
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:36 pm

Re: Shows TX on both TS at the same time

Post by KN2TOD »

It does not matter how your radio is set, it's how the hotspots/network are set. Think about this: how is it that your radio, programmed for one time slot, able to talk to around radio far removed from you that's programmed for a different time slot, using a different hotspot or repeater? Something is translating the time slots in between the two radios and if one end does not know what time slot is in use on the other end, then it must transmit on both slots, regardless of what each radio is specifically set to. It's not the radios translating the time slots, it's the hotspots/network that your radios are connecting to that is working its magic.

On a Dual/Duplex hotspot, try this: in the Brandmeister Manager panel, add TG 91 on TS1 and TG 31656 on TS2, both as static, and then sit back and watch the activity. Both TG's are heavily used and you should see traffic on each simultaneously. Later, add TG 91 on TS2; the BM Manager should now show the static assignments as 91(1), 91(2), 31656(2) and you will see the phenom of someone transmitting on both slots for a single TG.
KN4QZM
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:03 am

Re: Shows TX on both TS at the same time

Post by KN4QZM »

KN2TOD wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:10 pm It does not matter how your radio is set, it's how the hotspots/network are set. Think about this: how is it that your radio, programmed for one time slot, able to talk to around radio far removed from you that's programmed for a different time slot, using a different hotspot or repeater? Something is translating the time slots in between the two radios and if one end does not know what time slot is in use on the other end, then it must transmit on both slots, regardless of what each radio is specifically set to. It's not the radios translating the time slots, it's the hotspots/network that your radios are connecting to that is working its magic.

On a Dual/Duplex hotspot, try this: in the Brandmeister Manager panel, add TG 91 on TS1 and TG 31656 on TS2, both as static, and then sit back and watch the activity. Both TG's are heavily used and you should see traffic on each simultaneously. Later, add TG 91 on TS2; the BM Manager should now show the static assignments as 91(1), 91(2), 31656(2) and you will see the phenom of someone transmitting on both slots for a single TG.
Ok, I see what you are talking about and agree with what you are saying. However, my issue is different. I'm talking about when I TX on my radio, to the hotspot, lets say on TG91, TS2, it will sometimes show-up as TX simultaneously on TS1 and TS2. I am quite experienced with pi-star, hotspots, radio programming, repeaters, etc. and know is this not normal.

If you see my other posting, I have disabled TS1 in my hotspot and that should take care of this. Luckily it's not happening (yet) at the repeater and we use both TS so turning one off won't be practical.
KN2TOD
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:36 pm

Re: Shows TX on both TS at the same time

Post by KN2TOD »

Ah. What you're seeing is the interaction of static and dynamic talk group assignments. If I start out with my HS set to 91(1) as a static assignment and transmit with my radio on that TS, then traffic shows up on my dashboard as TS1. But if I subsequently start transmitting on TS2 from my radio, TG 91 is now dynamic (91(1) and 91(2) show up in the dynamic assignment portion of the dashboard) and I then see traffic back on my dashboard on both Time Slots. At some point, the dynamic assignments lapse and my dashboard goes back to showing only TS1 traffic for that TG.

I haven't played with using a TG outside of the ones I've set as static, but I'm assuming I'd see the same behavior: if I start on one time slot for a TG and then switch to the other time slot, I should see both time slots show up on the dashboard. Haven't tried the "Drop All Dynamic" either, to see if that resets things back to a single slot.
KN4QZM
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:03 am

Re: Shows TX on both TS at the same time

Post by KN4QZM »

KN2TOD wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:53 pm Ah. What you're seeing is the interaction of static and dynamic talk group assignments. If I start out with my HS set to 91(1) as a static assignment and transmit with my radio on that TS, then traffic shows up on my dashboard as TS1. But if I subsequently start transmitting on TS2 from my radio, TG 91 is now dynamic (91(1) and 91(2) show up in the dynamic assignment portion of the dashboard) and I then see traffic back on my dashboard on both Time Slots. At some point, the dynamic assignments lapse and my dashboard goes back to showing only TS1 traffic for that TG.

I haven't played with using a TG outside of the ones I've set as static, but I'm assuming I'd see the same behavior: if I start on one time slot for a TG and then switch to the other time slot, I should see both time slots show up on the dashboard. Haven't tried the "Drop All Dynamic" either, to see if that resets things back to a single slot.
I only use one static TG on my hotspot. Once and a while, and it's rare, I will bring up TG91 or TG93 for testing or demo purposes. The issue my friend and I occasionally have are when no other TGs (static or dynamic) are in use. Might be hard to see (wow the filesizes are small), but I will attached a screenshot he got of this one time when it happened. You can see him TX to K4WRC (TG3149803) and it's showing-up on both TSs at the same time!
KN4QZM
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:03 am

Re: Shows TX on both TS at the same time

Post by KN4QZM »

Update: My friend turned off TS1 and it did it again last night. One time during a QSO, he was TX on what should have been TS2 and it showed-up on TS1 and TS2 at the same time. Although this is a new hotspot, I'm going to flash a new SD card for him and we will try a fresh version of pi-star.
KN4QZM
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:03 am

Re: Shows TX on both TS at the same time

Post by KN4QZM »

Further update: Sadly it's also doing this on the repeater's pi-star controller so it's not just limited to the two hotspots. I'm going to escalate this so the developers see it.
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